Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Until.......

photograph of church bell and quote on love

Quote: A bell is not a bell until you ring it
                  A song is not a song until you sing it
                  Love isnt love until you give it away.

Author: Oscar Hammerstein II
Photographer: Dheepak Ra

Just wondering, do we share our love or give away our love? Also do we have any expectation during love or friendship? Feel free to comment - experience no bar ;-)

- Dheepak Ra

36 Comments:

Blogger anubhav said...

yes i do have expectations in love and friendship but dont know if it is the right thing do..

but agree love is best given..the more u give the more you get

6/07/2005 12:50 PM  
Blogger sensiblystoned said...

I would like to believe (or fool myself) that Im beyond setting expectations in life. Bah, who am I kidding, but I try to have no expectations.

Just saw your previous post. I would love to see how you go about ragging me ;)

6/07/2005 12:54 PM  
Blogger niki yokota said...

hi dheepak! interesting queston~(^o^);; we often say 'better not expect anything!', so i dont have expectations much. abt love, agree with anubhav. how abt u???

6/07/2005 4:42 PM  
Anonymous lakshmi said...

Whether u have expectations or not is not a big issue as long as your friend/lover is comfortable with it...

According to me., love or friendship should be unconditional...

6/07/2005 7:11 PM  
Blogger Srinivas said...

It is natural to have expectations from any relationship. If it was unconditional as lakshmi has mentioned, there would have been no break-ups, broken marriages, etc. And I feel love is to be shared. There is nothing like giving away love. This is purely my opinion.

Where was this snap taken?

6/07/2005 8:36 PM  
Blogger Scarface said...

Ditto. Where was this taken?

6/07/2005 9:18 PM  
Blogger Fayrouz said...

I learned not to have expectations in love or friendships.

And love is best shared between two people.

6/07/2005 9:29 PM  
Anonymous lakshmi said...

Yeap... I agree with Srinivas... If love is unconditional, then there will not be any break-ups...

As we know this fact... It is better to love the person unconditionally...

There can be difference of opinion, priorities etc., Still, getting along together is the true essence of love/friendship

And love is not about living with a compatible person but living with incompatibilities of the other person

6/07/2005 10:08 PM  
Blogger SonSon said...

Love can be shared or given. I think perhaps it is sweetest when shared but purest when given.

I liked the pic. Where was it taken?

6/07/2005 10:39 PM  
Blogger Art said...

We always say... dont expect anything in a relationship esp love and friendship... but this is where we expect most. We expect more from people who are more close...
But as life goes on we have to move on from the recieving end to the giving end... and life seems much better...
But ofcourse whatever u have done for the other person... never count that and never remind the other person that have done sacrifices or compromises or even simple things. Then there is just no value for what u have done... Well most of this is from my personal experiences... it hurts a lot when ur friend says "I did so n so for u... what did u do??"

6/07/2005 11:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think you give away love to someone and if you get it in return then you start sharing it..

ideally there should not be any expectations but people do have expectations in any relationship and so do i but if someone doesnt meet my expectations i try to ignore it and keep going...

6/07/2005 11:41 PM  
Anonymous Sangeetha said...

Well I do have expectations in friendship, and I have learnt that this can spoil the relationship completely

6/07/2005 11:45 PM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Nice to see such varied views. Here is my personal opinion:

Can anyone touch their heart and say that they dont have any expectation what so ever? Atleast I cant. I have expectations starting from my colleague or mother to my local MLA or co-passenger in the bus (or even blog visitor ;-) ). Its more of a question of what we expect and the extent to which we expect that.

Dont have outrageous expectations and more importantly accept people for who they are and not for who they can be.

Anubhav, For me love is best when it is both given as well recieved.

Sensiblystoned, So there is a guy more like me....

Niki, Its surprising but nevertheless nice to hear that you dont have expectations.

Lakshmi, You hit the nail on the head. "unconditional" - accepting them for who they are, is what I "expect" a lot.

Srinivas, There is hardly any difference btn my views and yours. We seem to be in the same wavelength.

Scarface, Where else but good old Hyderabad - Ramoji film city. Kind of "Intha maasam, hyderabad maasam" - translated - "This month is hyderabad month" :-)

Fayrouz, Thanks for dropping by. I have expectations from my friends. For eg when they are in trouble, I should be one of the first persons to get to know about it. May be I shouldnt but frankly I do. Also I differ from your opinion that its best "between two people".

Lakshmi - Is this the same person as the earlier comment under "lakshmi"? Anyway arent you being idealistic? Is it possible to live so? I loved the last quote/sentence of yours - very true.....

Sonson - I would prefer sweeter to purer. How about you? As mentioned before this is in the same place where all the statues of earlier post were shot.

Arathi, I agree completely with you. You had keyed in exactly what was in my mind. However are you sure its your friends who uttered those statements and not acquaintance? Most of the time this issue will come up with acquaintance and not friends (atleast if they are real fiends)

6/08/2005 12:06 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Anonymous and Sangeetha, Its true. Just like lakshmi pointed out, there is nothing wrong in expectations as such, its only when we frame our expectations as conditions that our relationship turns sour.

6/08/2005 12:08 AM  
Blogger Eroteme said...

Dunno... I really haven't understood love yet. We don't have expectations while we are angry at someone. We don't have any expectations when we are sharing a wonderful evening with someone... Hence, I am all confused.
To be loved in return is sure fun but does it decide my love for someone? Not yet.
But then expecting honesty would also be an expectation, right?
Then what is all this theoretical humbug about loving unconditionally and the like? Isn't it mere foolish soul soup which doesn't make sense beyond a point?
A relationship is a bond, a dialogue and hence, like in every dialogue, both need to participate.

Love is not a dialogue (IMHO).

6/08/2005 12:15 AM  
Blogger Meera said...

shud we "define" the boundaries of love and hence limit it? (as in debating whether there should be expectations or not etc)
why qualify love as 'unconditional'? why cant we just "eat when we are hungry and sleep when we are tired", laugh with and hence at life?

6/08/2005 2:53 AM  
Blogger npriya said...

well.. we can eat when we are hungry (although iam sure you are aware there are those who cannot afford even this !) or sleep when we are tired. But love is best shared. Simply on account of its nature. The sun and moon are different and so is the nature of this feeling called love. It involves giving and receiving. I would say the very process of receiving only can lead us to giving unconditional love. And i personally feel, we give more when we feel we also have enough.

what do children do? they give love and hopefully seek (or rather demand!) to receive also! I think only after we grew up, the whole process has become complicated.

Let me also add that despite endless discussions on love, it would always fall short of our understanding - for i think we have to go beyond our present selves to understand it !

6/08/2005 3:29 AM  
Blogger anubhav said...

whoa ..didnt the minds speak..a big debate dheepak..

anyways i agree wid npriya we will never understand love

"all great things are engimatic god, love and women.So let them be."

actually i was not getting a suitable third word...:D

6/08/2005 4:01 AM  
Blogger Art said...

very true, such words dont come out from real friends... but sometimes circumstances are such that these words just come out... and they stay in ur heart forever... even after things go fine later and all misunderstnadings are clear...
So what i learnt was never make such drastic statements however hurt u r... There are some wounds which can never heal...

6/08/2005 4:07 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Erotome,
Dont worry you arent the only one who hasnt understood love fully.

Meera,
We can expect that the person whom we love, should behave like this, they should empathize in this fashion, understand, should never lose temper etc etc. But putting it as a condition that you are loved only if you meet the expectation - is it right?

Priya,
We realize the joy/beauty only when we are loved. Once we have tasted it, I guess we like others too enjoy it - so we share it.

Anubhav,
True nice to see different opinions from lots of bloggers. Infact I even came to know who the anonymous blogger is - my team/cubicle mate :-)

Anubhav instead of trying to understand love, its better to feel it. BTW you are the only one whom I can catch both during the day as well as the night (night as per our standards is past midnight). Is it holiday?

6/08/2005 4:08 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Arathi,

Words spilt in anger is like "format c: /q/s". Its very difficult to undo the damage. But mistakes do happen and we need to forgive them. (If it is a mistake that is). After all "To err is human and forgive is divine"

6/08/2005 4:14 AM  
Blogger @$#!$# said...

well as they say...
if you love something(someone), set it free...
if it comes back, its yours.
if it doesn't , it never was!

6/08/2005 6:59 AM  
Blogger Eroteme said...

You have expectations from a relationship. Love is not a relationship, is it?

npriya, I think what meera meant was an analogy and not the literal sleeping and eating. Kids (< 3-4 years) demand attention and not love (subtle difference).

Love is no longer instinctive, no longer natural. We have started forming bounds, comparing, expecting. I am not trying sermonise here, but the main reason, Dheepak, I stayed away from trying to understand it (or so I say) was this.
Love has become like any other thing we deal in. It is centered inward and not how it was meant to be: outward.
Try this (tried this): Simply love a person. Let it be natural, instinctive. In the midst of many, you are drawn towards a person (not physically and not necessarily to a member of the opposite sex or as per your preferences). Love that person. Period. Whether that person loves you or not should be of least consequence. Whether s/he gives you what you want or not is of no consequence. Maybe you get to know that the person doesn't love you. (And loving is not the same as displaying love) Its a very disturbing experience (and I thank my friend for making it more so :-) You can't react to anything and the only thing you feel is love for this person. Might sound senseless, but I enjoyed it. As I stumbled and recovered and stumbled again and recovered... I realised that Love is not a dialogue, not a relation.
It is ....
:-)
This is not unconditional love or any of those popular marketing stuff... It is simply love. Like loving a flower or a sunrise or the moonlight or the absence of it. None of them will give you anything in return!!! :-)

As often as I do (and don't) I would concur with Meera. No point placing bounds. Love is not of the intellect (bounds are of the intellect)so how can we approach it when we are doing so with tools of the intellect?

6/08/2005 8:36 AM  
Blogger Smyta said...

I beleive Love is uncoditional but lovers aren't!!!! And two soulmates have only one expectation...>That both should love each other unconditionally...
:-)
Prolly that is why it is easy to be someone's boyfriend or a girlfriend or even a husband or a wife...You are free to have expectations and you can set conditions....But it is very difficult to realise you are someone's soulmate and flow with the magical true love!

One of my verses:-
What is wrong and what is right
Is not in your mind or in sight
Love ,well, is not really blind
But what it sees it doesnt mind

Yes if someone had true love, it would not matter if their soulmate did things as they wanted to or not(or) lived as per their expectations or not!

Smiles etc.,

Smyta

6/08/2005 8:38 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Ashish,
Its one of the most popular sayings - invariably poping up in someone's email signature. Though I have my own reservations regarding the same.

Erotome,
Just think about it. We fall in love as we get to know each other. Why do we get "drawn to that particular person"? May be it isnt conscious decision but subconsciously we decide that the person is good (bcoz they satisfy some of our expectations) If that is not the case (remember we arent talking about physical attraction) then why are we drawn to them in the first place?

Even if we take the same example, we love the flower & sun bcoz it satisfies our expectations (beauty, warmth etc) Its never the case that they love us.

Smyta
Thanks for dropping by. Loved these verses and also the first para....

"Yes if someone had true love, it would not matter ....lived as per their expectations or not!"

Take this example (yeah its a bit crude) What if the spouse we love came home late in the night after drinking heavily? Doesnt it matter that they dont live to our expectations?

I would put it slightly differently. I would continue to love but show my love by making them change for the better. It does (or u can say that it should) matter as to how they live. Though one needs to differentiate between their personal freedom/choice to the ones which affect both.

6/08/2005 9:54 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

When we love someone, we give them not only the right to love us but the power to hurt us - read it somewhere.

Friendship and Love are the few relationships in which we have a choice. We arent forced to be friends with someone.

We take our time to decide who our friends are and with whom we share our love. It should not only be difficult to form a bond it should be even more difficult to break the same........

6/08/2005 10:15 AM  
Blogger Ansh said...

I personally think we cease to exist when we stop expecting...however we should know our and the other person's limitations and boundaries...and expect within those boundaries!

"When we love someone, we give them not only the right to love us but the power to hurt us" - How very true...gotta agree on this baejaar!

6/08/2005 4:28 PM  
Blogger Srinivas said...

"When we love someone, we give them not only the right to love us but the power to hurt us"

Ansh - I totally agree with this and have even experienced this :(

6/08/2005 8:23 PM  
Blogger Meera said...

Dear Eroteme,
" Love is not of the intellect (bounds are of the intellect)so how can we approach it when we are doing so with tools of the intellect? "

A nod, a smile and silence.
[Thank you!]
:-)

6/08/2005 9:34 PM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Just wanted to add something:

Yesterday I got the news that a very good friend of mine has got engaged. Surprisingly she hasnt talked to her fiancee even once before saying yes!!!

That tosses around all the previous opinions I had.......

6/08/2005 9:42 PM  
Blogger Meera said...

Dear Dheepak,
Don't mean to start debate, but I cannot resist after reading your latest comment - Does engagement entail love? I wonder about that...

- Meera

6/09/2005 1:54 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Meera,
Good question. I am not saying that they love each other now. But they will with time. Wouldnt they? They will have to accept each other - no matter what expectations/dreams they would have had in the past. Love/affection cant be imposed but they tend to love each other. Personally I would have preferred to have marriage succeeding love and not the converse. Though the same love which starts before marriage should continue past marriage till death keeps them apart.

6/09/2005 2:40 AM  
Blogger Enchant said...

No body is perfect untill u fallen in love with them.

6/09/2005 6:18 AM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Enchant, That was a beautiful one liner. Really loved it.

6/09/2005 11:02 AM  
Blogger Eroteme said...

Aaah Baejaar,
You really are a romantic aren't you? :-)
Does it matter how you arrived at marriage if you aren't capable of maintaining marriage the way you wanted to? If you do manage to keep your marriage the way you wanted it to be, does it matter how you arrived at it? What counts is what you did with the marriage and not how you constructed it!! Like a newly constructed house and whether it changes into a home or not...
You could be married to your lover and then the marriage might (god forbid)fall apart. I agree that you had issued a disclaimer in your last statement (shrewd aren't ya? ;-):
"Though the same love which starts before marriage should continue past marriage till death keeps them apart."

"Should"? So now we aren't sure about it? Are we imposing it on the marriage?

Marriage is a social obligation (no, no, don't throw your hands up and say "Humbug". Think about it) and love (hopefully) is not. How can one lead to another? How can you expect one to lead to another?

"But they will with time. Wouldnt they? They will have to accept each other - no matter what expectations/dreams they would have had in the past. Love/affection cant be imposed but they tend to love each other."

Are we contradicting ourselves? :-)
Togetherness breeds fondness and caring at times... should that be confused with love? Just because love contains fondness and caring, does it mean that fondness and caring is suggestive of love?

To me marriage and love are unrelated. They could co-exist but are not essential for the other to exist and thrive. I can love someone without wanting to marry her, and I can marry someone without having loved her (and if you think about it, so can other human beings; its just that they have decided that it is too cheap and silly and mechanical and... (and other wonderful adjectives employed) to do so!!)

Sorry B, I tried keeping my finger off the comment link but your comment pulled me in!!! ;-)

6/09/2005 7:27 PM  
Blogger Baejaar said...

Erotome,
Me romantic? LoL. You cant be farther from the truth. Its just that I have my own views and belief.

To quote your own example, if I had a choice, I would prefer to build a house in the location and plan of my choice and try to make a "home" out of it, rather than inheriting a house which I have to convert it into a "home". Yes the latter is also possible but its more about which is preferred.....

Its the convergence of love and marriage which produces the best results. Even "Social obligations" doesnt mean that love and marriage are exclusive domain - they do overlap in parts.

Definitely one can live a happy married life without love but love elevates it to a different plane altogether.

BTW dont keep your finger off the trigger. Feel free to comment....

6/10/2005 12:46 AM  

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